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Middy
Middy is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #1

So don't shoot me, but I did a quick search and I found some conflicting info on what Thief's Eyes has been parsed to add.

I was going off (old) knowledge that it only added about 3-5% accuracy (which was "overwritten" by a multitude of other spells).

I saw Song say it was a straight 15% increase.

I saw some old parses that showed significantly less...

Anyone parse it recently?


songsa
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #2

15% should be with AA Enhanced Thief's Eyes (5% base + 10% from AA) but i don't think it is working properly.



Songsa
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brogett
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #3

I've probably parsed it more recently, but the only thing I can find right now is way back in 2008! See www.brogett.plus.com/rogue_offensive_dps.pdf

Back then it was a 2.7% increase. The spell data claims "Increase Chance to Hit by 5% with All Skills" which actually parsed out at 4.8% fewer misses. So perhaps the maths is correct, just not in the obvious way we think.

If the boost is now 15% in theory then it'd come out as only 5% actual dps gain. Something to parse.

Edit: I can't follow my maths on the 2.7% increase infact. It's correct on dps terms, but I think I just got lucky. 5% fewer misses from a base rate of about 25% miss rate (back then) would work out as 1.7% more hits. I had 1.6% more hits (normalised by time), so I guess I just got lucky on larger hits by random chance: despite 6 and 8 hour parses the difference is so small it's in the noise.



Last edited by brogett; 08-02-11 at 12:44 AM.
brogett
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #4

So some recent parses with full AA. Long-duration raid buffs (the usual bits) without TE vs with TE.

Without (26188sec)
5797 dps
75.0% hit, pierce
86.4% hit, backstab
100% hit, DD

With (38964sec)
5872 dps
76.3% hit, pierce
87.1% hit, backstab
100% hit, DD


Basically it translates to 5.1% *fewer misses* for both pierce and backstab. Ie 87.1-86.4 = 0.051*(100-86.4). For what it's worth when I did this test a couple years ago it came out at 4.7% fewer misses. I haven't retested it recently though without the Enhanced Thief's Eyes AA.

However it seems likely that the "increases effectiveness of your Thief's Eyes ability by 10 percent" means it moves 4.7% fewer misses to 1.1*4.7% fewer misses. All things considered, it's a tiny change.

The question is... do we care? Ask for more and we'll be labelled as doing significant ADPS. Ignore it and it's kind of underwhelming and makes the AA essentially useless.


songsa
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #5

brogett said:
The question is... do we care? Ask for more and we'll be labelled as doing significant ADPS. Ignore it and it's kind of underwhelming and makes the AA essentially useless.
Its always interesting to tell devs about that cause they may not know the AA is not working properly and may think +15% of accuracy for the group is a good Adps which can explain for a part our actual dps in raid/group.
Now do we want a fix or not?


brogett
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #6

songsa said:
Its always interesting to tell devs about that cause they may not know the AA is not working properly and may think +15% of accuracy for the group is a good Adps which can explain for a part our actual dps in raid/group.
Now do we want a fix or not?
I've PMed Elidroth and will report back any communications from him.


Kriyn
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #7

Would the parse with TE be skewed due to the fact that you're essentially on the mob for a longer time?


brogett
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Re: Thief's Eyes
Reply With Quote   #8

Kriyn said:
Would the parse with TE be skewed due to the fact that you're essentially on the mob for a longer time?
It should make the accuracy of the longer parse slightly higher (error rate reduces in proportion to the square root of the number of hits), but the averages should be able right.

I didn't check the average hit values though - they should be identical as TE doesn't change that, but it's an indication of error levels in the parse.




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