TheSafehouse



I am the black mage! I casts the spells that make the peoples fall down! -BM 8-Bit Theater




Safehouse Forums



Safehouse Site Info



 

The end is nigh


 

 

 







FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
FarSky
FarSky is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chattanooga, TN


FarSky's Avatar

 
Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #1

Any word on these rumors? Forum member from another board heavily involved with game devs is confirming that he's currently talking to "released" devs in IRC.

The axe finally fell. It was only a matter of time, I suppose. And while many of you may try to spin this to make SOE look bad, apparently this wasn't really their doing. You see, SOE doesn't own Sigil. It doesn't own Sigil now and they won't own them tomorrow. But they do own Vanguard. What fate awaits that game? I don't know. Don't particularly care either.

But I do know that at approximately 4:30PM today, Sigil employees were told to meet outside. At which point they were terminated. On the spot. By whom? Doesn't seem to have been Brad McQuaid, if it was, nobody is talking. But that doesn't seem like something he'd do. But I suppose the executioner is irrelevant since most folks secretly want it to be SOE and it wasn't. As it stands, people were told to come back tomorrow to do their paperwork and some may get hired by SOE.

I contacted SOE since I'm not in the business of burning bridges or spinning news and they had this to say:

"...an announcement is forthcoming tomorrow."

Update: There's some debate over this being ALL employees or just some of them. Obviously, it's not ALL of them - after all, someone had to do the firing. Let's just say that - from what I've heard - they don't have enough employees left to update a casual game... like Snood.


Pakesso
Pakesso is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #2

Yeah, seems professional enough so it's totally believable. Who the hell invites employees into the parking lot and fires them. :P As of now, i don't believe it. How ridiculous. LOL WoW fanbois at work? :O


FarSky
FarSky is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chattanooga, TN


FarSky's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #3

Seen it happen before (though it was a large unused office room, instead of the parking lot).

Either way, I guess we'll know tomorrow.


Telrik
Telrik is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #4

Looks like something big is going down..

Gah, does this mean i will miss a "re-launch" ? Or does it mean that SoE will do a "revamp" for then good of the game?

This severely diminishes my chances of returning to Vanguard..


Itzena
Itzena is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2001


Itzena's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #5

FE(veryones)I: f13 is one of the 'successor sites' to the old 'Lum the Mad' rant-site.


Telrik
Telrik is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #6

Itzena said:
FE(veryones)I: f13 is one of the 'successor sites' to the old 'Lum the Mad' rant-site.
Not sure what you meant here, but there are posts by some of the sigil employees aswell.. So i dont think this is fake news mate. Sorry.


Nocte
Nocte is offline
n00b!

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Manchester, NH


Nocte's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #7

I'm pretty sure Itzena was validating the site, not discounting it. Lum (love him or hate him) is a pretty well known intraweb celebrity.


Tivia
Tivia is offline
Weird Store
Snack Pervert

Join Date: Dec 2003


Tivia's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #8

IF this is true,

As mentioned by someone in the thread. Pretty common practice and I would expect to see most of not all of them hired by SoE by tomorrow.


DmaulSoulstealer
DmaulSoulstealer is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Mar 2006


DmaulSoulstealer's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #9

Can they make them fix stealth before they go??





Dm


Maliphus_Iscariot
Maliphus_Iscariot is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CT


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #10

Its all over the place... F13, SV, vgspheres, etc..


Hmm.... I wonder if class lead may know something about the future of our class and this game?



_______________________________________________
Maliphus Iscariot
43 Rogue on ________
Tivia
Tivia is offline
Weird Store
Snack Pervert

Join Date: Dec 2003


Tivia's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #11

Maliphus_Iscariot said:
Its all over the place... F13, SV, vgspheres, etc..


Hmm.... I wonder if class lead may know something about the future of our class and this game?
Honestly, I would speculate everything is just fine. SoE bought the game, I doubt seriously they would can it. I would not expect to see any major changes, not much different then when SoE aquired Verant.


Pakesso
Pakesso is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #12

I read somewhere in some smoke signals (I'm Native American) that everyone got fired because no one wanted to touch the Rogue class. Sony didn't want to go through the same mistake they made with EQ and the Rogue classes there. They wanted Vanguard to be a Rogue powerhouse game but every single plan they had for the class fell through cause of the lazy ass programmers. The reason they have a hard time fixing stealth is because the whole GAME revolved around our class but due to the other classes getting love and balance (in reference to the Rogue stealth) they ended up screwing up the code so bad that no one wanted to even go near Rogues and fix it. They all tried to hide their mistake by making every other class playable. One of the employees in-the-know said they were hoping that making 15 classes and adding 2 more soon would make everyone forget Rogues even existed and therefor force the class to be eliminated altogether. Sony Online caught on and called them all into a parking lot and said "You Rogue hating bastards, you're all fired. You can go apply at Blizzard now."

So here's to hoping that Sony will hire Rogue lovers and fix the code and everything in the universe that would make Rogues be the Rogues they were meant to be. Stay tuned...


Nocte
Nocte is offline
n00b!

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Manchester, NH


Nocte's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #13



If it makes anyone feel any better, the affiliate sites don't know much more than you do. Glip and Elrar have been filtering info as they can, but nothing worth mentioning at this point. Corporate diplomacy is fun!


Lenilya
Lenilya is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Seattle


Lenilya's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #14

Assertive Reasoning.

Get the lever for Sigil Infos set, and then talk to our SH NPC's for the scoop.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"You are not alone, and you are not strange.
You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person."
Astery
Astery is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Mar 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #15

so it seems not much hope for rogues to get the fixes anytime soon...


Itzena
Itzena is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2001


Itzena's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #16

Yeah, my intention was "These blokes are passing on rumours, but they're probably accurate rumours"

Anyone else got a feeling of deja vu, by the way? Oh, and apparently Brad's been AWOL for about six months.


vjek
vjek is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #17

Pakesso said:
... Sony Online caught on and called them all into a parking lot and said "You Rogue hating bastards, you're all fired. You can go apply at Blizzard now." ...
... and then I woke up from my dream.



__________
Pakesso
Pakesso is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #18

That second AWOL article kinda puts a little more bite into the rumour. :( What's going to happen to our beloved game? I do love this game. The potential has me just wondering what could become of it. Who's going to take the reigns and turn this one into a mammoth? I'm afraid Sony is gonna take it and turn it into a gay ass game. I read the reviews of LOTR online and it's gotten great reviews...but is still WOWish. Now i gotta wonder what to do with Vanguard. Level 40 Rogue and i don't know where it's going to go. I might try LOTR, and just hold my hopes up for Conan. Oh god why can't we get a game that's hardcore and fun to play..why oh why has Vanguard become a grave? :(


Dikamin
Dikamin is offline
Rogue Class Leader
-Vanguard

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Minnesota


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #19

I dont know any more infos than anyone else either. Wish i did, been watching forums all day.

I seriously doubt they will scrap the game so quick.


JookaWoo
JookaWoo is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Apr 2004


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #20
Bummey
Bummey is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota! :(


Bummey's Avatar

 
Re: Smed Response
Reply With Quote   #22

blah



Last edited by Bummey; 05-15-07 at 12:31 PM.
Telrik
Telrik is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #23

Well, anyone got a copypaste? That link is dead, as is the one in the other post :(


JookaWoo
JookaWoo is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Apr 2004


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #24

Hello Everyone,

Today I would like to formally announce that SOE has acquired the assets of Sigil Games Online, including Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. As a part of this acquisition, we are bringing on approx 50 people from Sigil in order to insure that Vanguard continues to grow. SOE is dedicated to making sure that Vanguard is well taken care of and that we provide the same level of service we do for our other titles. In the near future we will come out with a publishing plan that will largely be driven by the strong player community that Vanguard has already built up. We plan on supporting Vanguard for many years to come, and you can expect many content updates as part of your subscription. Down the line we will of course be coming out with new expansion packs, but right now the focus is on making sure Vanguard is running the way it should be.

We are also officially opening up forums. In the past, our deal with Sigil didn't allow for this, but as with our other games we fill this is an important part of communicating with the playerbase. You can expect a strong presence from our community team as well as the development team members. While we realize that Sigil had said they wouldn't open up general forums, at SOE we fill this hampers our efforts to communicate effectively with the players. We will continue to support the fansites in a big way, and will be contacting many of them directly to discuss what this change means. By no means do we want to lose the strong fansite support by making this change, but we do think it's important to have a forum for players to communicate directly with SOE.

A few other items I wanted to mention

1. Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard. Dave Gilbertson will be the person directly responsible for the day-to-day management of both the Sigil Carlsbad office as well as Vanguard.

2. We do not plan on making any major changes to Vanguard. Any changes are going to come from the team itself. We aren't mandating any big changes to the game. We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.

3. We do plan on spending a lot of time cleaning up legacy issues with Vanguard and making sure the game's performance improves.

By way of comparison, this team is approx. the same size as the EQ2 team and I feel like that team has done an amazing job improving EQ2 since it's launch. We intend to do the same thing for Vanguard and it is our hope that the players feel like we're doing right by them.

Smed


Bummey
Bummey is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota! :(


Bummey's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?
Reply With Quote   #25

Telrik said:
Well, anyone got a copypaste? That link is dead, as is the one in the other post :(
Hello Everyone,

Today I would like to formally announce that SOE has acquired the assets of Sigil Games Online, including Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. As a part of this acquisition, we are bringing on approx 50 people from Sigil in order to insure that Vanguard continues to grow. SOE is dedicated to making sure that Vanguard is well taken care of and that we provide the same level of service we do for our other titles. In the near future we will come out with a publishing plan that will largely be driven by the strong player community that Vanguard has already built up. We plan on supporting Vanguard for many years to come, and you can expect many content updates as part of your subscription. Down the line we will of course be coming out with new expansion packs, but right now the focus is on making sure Vanguard is running the way it should be.

We are also officially opening up forums. In the past, our deal with Sigil didn't allow for this, but as with our other games we fill this is an important part of communicating with the playerbase. You can expect a strong presence from our community team as well as the development team members. While we realize that Sigil had said they wouldn't open up general forums, at SOE we fill this hampers our efforts to communicate effectively with the players. We will continue to support the fansites in a big way, and will be contacting many of them directly to discuss what this change means. By no means do we want to lose the strong fansite support by making this change, but we do think it's important to have a forum for players to communicate directly with SOE.

A few other items I wanted to mention

1. Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard. Dave Gilbertson will be the person directly responsible for the day-to-day management of both the Sigil Carlsbad office as well as Vanguard.

2. We do not plan on making any major changes to Vanguard. Any changes are going to come from the team itself. We aren't mandating any big changes to the game. We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.

3. We do plan on spending a lot of time cleaning up legacy issues with Vanguard and making sure the game's performance improves.

By way of comparison, this team is approx. the same size as the EQ2 team and I feel like that team has done an amazing job improving EQ2 since it's launch. We intend to do the same thing for Vanguard and it is our hope that the players feel like we're doing right by them.

Smed
Beep


novacaine
novacaine is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #26

Something about the Smed that makes me feel sick to my stomach every time I read a press release from him.


Telrik
Telrik is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #27

That was fast, thanks!

And as for the post.. "hmmm"

Im not sure what to make of it, but im leaning towards "not good"...

Will be interesting to see how it all works out for the players. And i was half expecting them to announce free game time until the game is closer to finished..

Maybe we will see greater efforts on classes now, but with smed particularly mentioning performance i really don't see that happening. And i wonder what kinda tricks they got up their sleeves in order to make that engine perform satisfactory, i certainly got the impression from Brad's posts that its not possible..

Ah well, best of luck to those of you who still play!


Nocte
Nocte is offline
n00b!

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Manchester, NH


Nocte's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #28

More info from a new Gamespot interview with Mr. Smedley...
GameSpot: The big news is that SOE is acquiring Sigil, and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes along with it. In your own words, why?

John Smedley: We feel like it's an excellent time and place to do this. We like the people over at Sigil, and we respect the creative work they've done on [the game].

GS: Tell us about how the acquisition is going to be handled. Will SOE be bringing most of Sigil's staff in-house?

JS: We're bringing a little more than half of the staff on board. The majority of the Vanguard team itself is coming onboard at Sony Online Entertainment and will remain in Carlsbad. The studio will be run by a gentleman by the name of Dave Gilbertson who has been running Vanguard for quite some time now. Management of the studio will be run day-to-day, as-is. Also, Brad McQuaid will be kept on in an external position as a creative advisor. In the meantime, we're gonna continue to run the game.

GS: Brad McQuaid has been quoted on public message boards admitting that the game shipped in a non-ideal, incomplete state. How will Vanguard's upkeep be handled once the acquisition is complete? Will development on the game continue, or will it be immediately shuffled onto SOE Station as part of a subscription package?

JS: The game is already on Station Access, and since January, many of the bugs and issues in the game have been addressed, and the rest will be as well. Vanguard is an SOE product and we're going to make sure it gets taken care of. As for the state of the release, well, Sigil only had a certain level of funding, and we contributed as well. But the game is in good shape now. We sold 200,000 copies...I'm not sure many people realize that. It's actually a very healthy game.

GS: What are the longer-term plans for the game? Was there other content planned and in development for the game, or expansion packs?

JS: Absolutely. First and foremost, we have a lot of updates in the
works to enhance the existing game and put in new content. Very shortly, a new content release schedule will be posted with more details. The idea is to make the game even better and make the customers happy.

GS: What are the longer-term plans for the Carlsbad studio?

JS: For the time being, Carlsbad will stay focused on Vanguard. Over time, it's going to become part of the San Diego studio. We'll also look to do other things, long-term. For example, some Sigil Games staffers are moving to San Diego to work on an undisclosed project at SOE.

GS: Some business-world cynics point out that McDonalds isn't in the business of fast-food, but of real-estate with its many locations. What's the thinking behind having so many different locations worldwide?

JS: I don't think there's anything cynical about what we do. We go where the talent is. It's that simple. Many of the people working at Sigil used to work at SOE, and they left to chase the dream of working on a new fantasy MMO of their own creation. We're bringing those people back into the fold and we're excited to do so.

GS: Tell us about how this acquisition fits into SOE's overall strategy, which seems much more geared towards console games these days.

JS: Well, our strategy remains focused on very high-quality online games. We think Vanguard fits nicely into that. It's our most high-end game hardware-wise, and it's also our most "hardcore" game...we're not going to turn it into an easy "Care Bear" game. We'll continue with our commitment to the players to make the game the best it can be.

GS: Is there anything else to add about Vanguard or the Sigil acquisition?

JS: Obviously, I'd like to comment on the fact that some Sigil people lost their jobs. We at SOE did our best to keep as many people employed as physically possible. We went out of our way to hire as many people as possible, in some cases, more than budgetary constraints allowed. I'm hoping people feel like they were treated fairly.

GS: One last question: this isn't the first time SOE has "rescued" an online game in a flagging state. Some time ago, SOE picked up The Matrix Online, which seemed to be in a similar situation. Is this sort of thing also a part of SOE's overall strategy, or are they just chance occurrences?

JS: Here's the thing: in many parts of the industry, you're seeing layoffs. In our company, you see growth. We do what we do because of talent, because of people who are good at what they do. You may see games that aren't as successful as [the developers would] like [them] to be, but to us, what are most valuable are the people and the talent.


Bummey
Bummey is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota! :(


Bummey's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #29

Telrik said:
Ah well, best of luck to those of you who still play!

Yeah, good luck you guys... My plan to try this again in a few months may be thrown in the trash.


novacaine
novacaine is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #30

Perhaps with Brad and Sigils finance situation, it wasn't possible. The one thing I know about SOE is if they see the possibility of making some cash off something, they aren't afraid to invest up front. Who knows, I guess we'll all just have to kick back, crack a beer, light a fatty and wait.


Bummey
Bummey is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota! :(


Bummey's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #31

novacaine said:
The one thing I know about SOE is if they see the possibility of making some cash off something, they aren't afraid to invest up front.
That's exactly it. For better or worse, they'll make money off of it.

edit: Except in SWG and Planetside.


Phantom Rogue
Phantom Rogue is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2001


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #32

Vanguard/Sigil got too big too fast. The engine was modified to hell, and now runs like crap (obviously).

They needed to Bring in MSFT to fund it, then when MSFT realized the game was just going to be a major money sink for at least an additional 3 development years, they cut their Bonds with Sigil.

After the MSFT fiasco, Sigil realized they underestimated dev time, went to Old Faithful, SOE to fund/produce the game. SOE most likely gave unrealistic deadlines, a compromise was made, and Vanguard was pushed out the door imcomplete. (again, Obviously)

These problems were no ones fault, just a matter of big business and money. Vanguard came out at the wrong time, and landed right smack into the WoW juggernaut.

Id be surprised if SOE didnt consolidate Servers (like they did with EQ), into 1 PvP and 2 PvE. And concentrate on 'rebuilding the Engine' and then Raid content.

It was a major undertaking to make Vanguard, and Sigil came up short, SoE realizes that Vanguard *could* rival WoW, but needs to make the game more appealing and better running to do so, so they bought out Sigil and are now in the Mr Fixit stages.

Ill enjoy LOTR:Online for a few months and check back in with Vanguard to see how Progress is.

(disclaimer: The above is mostly speculation from following Beta boards, Interviews and other news sites)


Itzena
Itzena is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2001


Itzena's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #33

SOE's track record of major game revamps stands at 50/50 - one very bad (SWG), one very good (EQ2).

I'd say that VG has a better chance now than it did with Brad (theoretically) running the show


FarSky
FarSky is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chattanooga, TN


FarSky's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #34

Itzena said:
I'd say that VG has a better chance now than it did with Brad (theoretically) running the show
That's basically my take on it.


Pakesso
Pakesso is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #35

You know, I'm kinda thinking this might be the best for the situation. I mean, maybe this explains why everything went out of whack with Brad not leading like he was supposed to. I'm kinda comforted a little knowing Sony bought it out. THat means they want to make money, that means the game will (hopefully) cater to the players who are there now, and that's us. I'd like to believe we're hardcore. The hardcore stayed with the game and the fluff b*tches left and went back to WoW or LOTR Online...the news today puts my mind at ease. We were fed jacksh*t since the game launched. Maybe now that we know who's running the show we can expect more? Maybe? LOL Time will tell, but i'm still stickin' to the game...


Gobbwin
Gobbwin is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DC


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #36

While I'm not a huge fan of SOE after what they did to EQ (GoD expansion), SWG (yea), EQ2, etc. these couple of comments caught my attention and I'm desperately hoping that they are actually true and will be followed.

JookaWoo said:
2. We do not plan on making any major changes to Vanguard. Any changes are going to come from the team itself. We aren't mandating any big changes to the game. We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.

3. We do plan on spending a lot of time cleaning up legacy issues with Vanguard and making sure the game's performance improves.

Nocte said:

JS: Well, our strategy remains focused on very high-quality online games. We think Vanguard fits nicely into that. It's our most high-end game hardware-wise, and it's also our most "hardcore" game...we're not going to turn it into an easy "Care Bear" game. We'll continue with our commitment to the players to make the game the best it can be.



Those who desire peace must prepare for war.
Pakesso
Pakesso is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #37

Gobbwin said:
While I'm not a huge fan of SOE after what they did to EQ (GoD expansion), SWG (yea), EQ2, etc. these couple of comments caught my attention and I'm desperately hoping that they are actually true and will be followed.
Those are exactly the statements i noted also...i'm hopin' with you.


Brelkor
Brelkor is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pornocopia


Brelkor's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #38

Wow, official forums, now people can whine with official voice! wonderful.

let the class balance wars begin!



Brelkor Blackhammer
Wanderer of universes, conquerer of malty beverages.

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." Patton

"The last time I died, wasn't nearly this much fun." Otep

Dead men tell no tales. The undead never shut up.

Have you ever pondered the advantages and disadvantages of a hemophiliac werewolf?
Qutsmnie
Qutsmnie is offline
Veteran

Join Date: May 2004


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #39

Smed says "OWNED!" Brad says "...Literally...."



----------------------------------------------------
http://insufficientstatistics.wordpress.com/
----------------------------------------------------
Maliphus_Iscariot
Maliphus_Iscariot is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CT


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #40

Pakesso said:
The hardcore stayed with the game and the fluff b*tches left and went back to WoW or LOTR Online...
So since I quit I'm a "fluff b*tch"? I'm sorry that I lost interest in the game. I can't justify paying for something that has no interest for me. When I freely roam around on the team PvP server and kill anyone in my path i get a bit bored after a while (I think I quit w/ 4k+ infamy). I'm taking a hiatus until some kind of end game content rolls around. I'm not 100% done w/ VG yet. There is just not enough there at the moment to deserve my 15 bucks a month.

p.s. Ask Ubik about my char. I was holding down the Rogue class on Varking for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time for Order.


Tsoljin
Tsoljin is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Mar 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #41

I'm excited about their re-release marketing campaign. It can't be bad knowing Sony's track record. If worse comes to worse, they can always " invent " some gaming articles which proclaim the re-release a success.


Pakesso
Pakesso is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #42

Maliphus_Iscariot said:
So since I quit I'm a "fluff b*tch"? I'm sorry that I lost interest in the game. I can't justify paying for something that has no interest for me. When I freely roam around on the team PvP server and kill anyone in my path i get a bit bored after a while (I think I quit w/ 4k+ infamy). I'm taking a hiatus until some kind of end game content rolls around. I'm not 100% done w/ VG yet. There is just not enough there at the moment to deserve my 15 bucks a month.

p.s. Ask Ubik about my char. I was holding down the Rogue class on Varking for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time for Order.
And i supposed you exhausted every angle the game? SUch as the very indepth and interesting crafting sphere? Or the diplomacy sphere, where the real story of the game actually lies? I've been adventuring the whole time with little xp in the diplomacy and crafting, yet, i'm never bored. Go figure. I haven't even scratched the surface of the game and i'm aware of it. That's why I don't get bored. Now as for the term fluff b*tch, I'm sorry you took offence to that. May i ask what you went to play instead though? I have to admit i'm tempted to taste LOTR online, but i know it's not going to have the same open ended experience i get with Vanguard. Conan might capture my attention if i can actually feel like a Rogue. But yeah, the fluff b*tches took off. LOL Not saying you're a fluff b*tch, but you can't say the game is unplayable. If it was, i never would have gotten to 40 as a Rogue. So many people quit between 20 and 30. I hit 34 and loved the class, even though in comparison it had it's rough edges.

The thing is, we were given a sandbox, and some kids didn't like the color of the sand. It's still sand and we can make of the experience what we want to make of it. I made my Vanguard a social experience and got very much of that. Different people play for different reasons, i'm just one who used a little more imagination and that helped accept this game for all it's flaws, cause i also realized that the game was huge, and that alone made me feel like a grain of sand on a beach, which to me is awesome.


Drole Defiantdagger
Drole Defiantdagger is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Back hanging out in the United States' old flaccid Florida


Drole Defiantdagger's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #43

Pakesso said:
And i supposed you exhausted every angle the game? SUch as the very indepth and interesting crafting sphere? Or the diplomacy sphere, where the real story of the game actually lies? I've been adventuring the whole time with little xp in the diplomacy and crafting, yet, i'm never bored. Go figure. I haven't even scratched the surface of the game and i'm aware of it. That's why I don't get bored. Now as for the term fluff b*tch, I'm sorry you took offence to that. May i ask what you went to play instead though? I have to admit i'm tempted to taste LOTR online, but i know it's not going to have the same open ended experience i get with Vanguard. Conan might capture my attention if i can actually feel like a Rogue. But yeah, the fluff b*tches took off. LOL Not saying you're a fluff b*tch, but you can't say the game is unplayable. If it was, i never would have gotten to 40 as a Rogue. So many people quit between 20 and 30. I hit 34 and loved the class, even though in comparison it had it's rough edges.

The thing is, we were given a sandbox, and some kids didn't like the color of the sand. It's still sand and we can make of the experience what we want to make of it. I made my Vanguard a social experience and got very much of that. Different people play for different reasons, i'm just one who used a little more imagination and that helped accept this game for all it's flaws, cause i also realized that the game was huge, and that alone made me feel like a grain of sand on a beach, which to me is awesome.
The three different content spheres are great, and there is a lot there... I'm not denying that. But it's not for everyone, and this causes a problem because a lot of content across the board doesn't keep people who are only interested in one or two spheres out of three. You can't attack these people for "not playing the game to it's fullest", because you can't expect everyone to. When someone loses interest in one sphere, they aren't going to magically find it in another if they had none there in the first place. Once each system is completely fleshed out with content from start to finish you'll see less people lose interest, its as simple as that.

That being stated, I myself still play Vanguard every day and I enjoy it. I'd let you assume, but I'll flat out say that I am indeed one of those people that didn't pick up Vanguard for crafting/diplomacy, mainly just for adventuring. I've never really liked crafting in games and diplomacy doesn't interest me at all. While it looks to me that they are well done, it's just not for me. (Then again, I might have to grind out Diplomacy to remove the Civic buffs from every city I go to if they don't fix the fact that it removes my invis...)

But yeah, the fluff b*tches took off. LOL Not saying you're a fluff b*tch
Actually...



Deflagration - Ungiggity - Jointpaper - Pö - Proctologist - Fantastical - Pandarica
WoW - L a s t R i t e s - Firetree
Too many to play, too little time to do it.
Nymm
Nymm is offline
Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Guinness Town


Nymm's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #44

The vanguard that was released is so pale in comparison to what was promised and the systems released so dumbed down compared to systems present in early beta that's I've chosen to play nothing rather than torture myself with what's left of vanguard.

Please send me my fluff bitch badge and tshirt, I wear a large.



-Nymm
Bummey
Bummey is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minnesota! :(


Bummey's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #45

I have never heard of "fluff bitches" before.


Telrik
Telrik is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #46

Nymm said:
The vanguard that was released is so pale in comparison to what was promised and the systems released so dumbed down compared to systems present in early beta that's I've chosen to play nothing rather than torture myself with what's left of vanguard.

Please send me my fluff bitch badge and tshirt, I wear a large.
Haha! Priceless and well said.


Pokers
Pokers is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Mar 2007


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #47

Nymm said:
the systems released so dumbed down compared to systems present in early beta
Oh, please. Have you actually experienced these originally implemented systems? They sucked. One of Vanguards problems was that all their retarded design concepts had to be scrapped and completely redone maybe 10 months before release because they sucked so hard.

The combat system? Watching your toon autoattack once ever 6 seconds and using abilities that affected your next autoattack? Watching your UI for flashing icons that tell you what the mob does so you can counter it? These might have been interesting ideas but it turns out it was about as much fun as watching paint dry. It made you feel completely detached from what your toon does.

Harvesting? Having groups of people attack trees with various abilities until the tree's HP bar was reduced to zero? It was longwinded, boring, ridiculous and pointless.

Diplomacy? Attacking NPCs with "Good Argument" and "Bad Joke" while watching another set of pseudo-hp bars increase and decrease? And having to do it every single time you wanted to talk to an NPC?

All three systems used the combat system mechanics which sucked to begin with. Their original ideas where so kooky that no one wanted to play this POS, not even for free. They had to change them. What we have now, flawed is it may be, is still worlds better than the crap we had to keep up with in early beta.

Too bad they didn't change another kooky idea: having three retardedly oversized continents but nothing that could possibly qualify as an interesting world that feels alive.

I posted way back in beta that they should scrap Kojan and Qalia, reduce the size of Thestra by 1/3, pack all the content into the remaining landmass, turn useless New Targonor into a dungeon and carefully design social hubs and ways to direct the stream of players.

I predicted exactly what happens now: people having no idea where to go after level 30 or 40, no idea where to find groups, no idea where to advance, because everything is scattered across an oversized world no one gives a shiit about because it just feels so empty. I predicted that they would have to put god-damn trainers into every tent outpost because the distances are too huge for cities to effectively function as player hubs.

The fantards, of course, disagreed and babbled incoherent nonsense about Vanguard supposedly promoting a "nomad" lifestyle with crafters and player traders following the adventurers to do business and such hilariously naive crap.

This "early beta" nostaliga is idiotic. The "original" Vanguard must have been the worst game ever devised by anyone in the history of online gaming, clear evidence for my initial suspicion that McQuaid and Butler wouldn't know how to make a good game if their lives depended on it, unless they can find a MUD to rip off.



Last edited by Pokers; 05-16-07 at 01:59 AM.
Nocte
Nocte is offline
n00b!

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Manchester, NH


Nocte's Avatar

 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #48

Nymm was in early beta, and played through the end of beta. You're awfully critical of a set of mechanics that you obviously never played. The early combat system (though it admittedly DID need polish), was actually quite fun. It had lots of potential, but was scrapped for the typical combat seen in every other RPG.

My favorite Vanguard was beta 2.5 when combat, death, and travel actually meant something. Community was a must (i.e. grouping for level and quest progression) and coaxed people into banding together to do things rather than the soloers paradise offered now.


Gobbwin
Gobbwin is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DC


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #49

Pokers said:
I predicted exactly what happens now: people having no idea where to go after level 30 or 40, no idea where to find groups, no idea where to advance, because everything is scattered across an oversized world no one gives a shiit about because it just feels so empty. I predicted that they would have to put god-damn trainers into every tent outpost because the distances are too huge for cities to effectively function as player hubs.

The fantards, of course, disagreed and babbled incoherent nonsense about Vanguard supposedly promoting a "nomad" lifestyle with crafters and player traders following the adventurers to do business and such hilariously naive crap.

This "early beta" nostaliga is idiotic. The "original" Vanguard must have been the worst game ever devised by anyone in the history of online gaming, clear evidence for my initial suspicion that McQuaid and Butler wouldn't know how to make a good game if their lives depended on it, unless they can find a MUD to rip off.

Yep, you should always provide some form of identifyable progression to players, even if its simply an NPC directing you in the general direction of the next outpost once you've finished up all the quests that you can for them. The level 30 and below areas do this quite well, but after that, you have to listen to rumors and region chat to find out where to go next.

Further, not many liked the nomadic idea as it either required all players to travel together or you could drag a group's worth of people around in your caravan. This means that you would have to coordinate playtime amongst friends, add to that the time it takes to travel and thats given you know where the next area is. If you're exploring and trying to find a new area, thats another beast entirely. Can't tell you how many times I've had static groups where I log in at our last hunting area only to find them on another continent.

Had they implimented a system where you could make an old west style wagon train or something similar where entire guilds could move together; that would have been something else entirely.


Maliphus_Iscariot
Maliphus_Iscariot is offline
Registered Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CT


 
Re: Sigil Gutted?/Smed's Response
Reply With Quote   #50

I loved the early diplomacy quest lines for all the races. It gave a lot of insight into the background and story of the races. Personally, I loved the Dark Elves one the best. I've done crafting, diplomacy, and adventuring. Once I was done w/ the main Raki story line portion of Diplomacy and it went to talking to a few random people.... That kind of blew it for me.

The one thing that will get me to stay in Vanguard is some sort of good story line aside from Diplomacy.

Pakesso said:
May i ask what you went to play instead though?
I've gone back to FFXI for the story, community, and massive end-game content.



Last edited by Maliphus_Iscariot; 05-16-07 at 05:50 AM.


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump







 
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:27 AM.
All posts are
© Copyright 2004-2006 The Safehouse Network