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brogett
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AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #1

Quote from Elidroth: "Time to spin up the AA machine.. Let's start hearing your ideas for new ones, upgrades, changes, etc."

What AA ideas do people have for the next expansion?

Brog

Edit: some past posts to trawl if you want to see what old ideas we've had:
HoT: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ad.php?t=37428
HoT vote: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ad.php?t=37434
Underfoot discussions: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...d.php?p=482990
Underfoot vote: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ad.php?t=35540
Underfoot results: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ad.php?t=35588



Last edited by brogett; 05-06-12 at 10:13 AM.
Stalk
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #2

MGB Pee on everyone's DPS


SincroFashad
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #3

Illusion Shadowman!

-Sinc


brogett
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #4

MOAR DPS: dress it up as desired, but we all know it'll be the primary goal!

I'm not sure I even like the ideas below, but I'm thinking out loud. I reserve the right to rubbish them later

Shadow stance: Activated AA that builds up over time to boost our damage by, say, 25%. However it requires attacking from the shadows, aka being undetected. Any time we get hit the bonus resets to 0 and we start the build up again. Rationale - rewarding agro management. Problem - AoEs, ramp, etc, so it's situational. (That may make it more palatable to the devs though.)

Devilish decoy: Forcibly spin a mob away from the rogue for 2 ticks. (Problem - potential raid abuse on cone spells?)

Poison distillation: the ability to combine say 5 level 90 poison components to obtain 1 level 95. Similarly 5x lvl 95 to get 1 level 100, etc. Feel free to change 5 to 2, 10, or whatever devs deem is appropriate. Rationale - even now we get many many more lvl 90 drops from even con and upwards mobs than we do lvl 95 ones. It'd be nice to not just ignore them.


hettil
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #5

Extended and/or hastened counterattack. They'll give you some guff about it being OP already, but how when compared to headshot/vinelash ? Ranger's don't even need to pop a merc to rake in insane AA's
Barring that some sort of increase in the frequency of regular ripostes would be nice
More ranks of Knave's return strike (see above about counterattack)
more ranks of hastened escape
3 more ranks of extended RF
An AA to make TE an aura
More actual dps return on TE
We keep asking, but never get it ... an improved version of SoS

Other than that, more ranks of our bread and butter DPS stuff and the usual crap they give us. If we are getting 5 more levels too then more ranks of anatomy of course, stuff like that.



Rogues backstab, cheat, steal, sneak around, and generally cause mayhem and mischeif. If this isn't what you're doing, go be a monk or a zerker.

Bargai_Stromm
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #6

SincroFashad said:
Illusion Shadowman!

-Sinc
I am a mask collecter and would rather see this as a rogue or rogue/enchanter mask than another Cunning Disguise AA.

Having said that, mask or AA, how long would it be before an ALL/ALL clicky appeared on the market place?


Jazya
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #7

AA's that don't require expansion progression to purchase.



manateeX
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #8

hettil said:
Extended and/or hastened counterattack. They'll give you some guff about it being OP already, but how when compared to headshot/vinelash ? Ranger's don't even need to pop a merc to rake in insane AA's
.
Maybe an aa that ups the proc rate for assasination attempts.

Also, maybe just update the steadfast servant? Back in the days of grinding xp in thalassius when it was a hot zone, my steadfast servant plus one or two heal pots was all I needed to stay alive.


hettil
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #9

AA's to increase the Mod2 caps ... accuracy, avoidance, strike through etc.


brogett
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #10

Hastened spires (some classes get already I believe). Minor, but all helps.


Effoff
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #11

Mob movement AA. Like the monk and warrior AA's that allows them to pull and push mobs in a direction. Since our DPS is dependent highly on mob placement, we should be able to move the mob some.

Hate reducing AA's. This means no more DoT's. Even an AA that removes all DoT's from the mob that were inflicted from a rogue when they escape (so the next tick will not put us back on agro).

Increase the level of that we can (anatomy) assassinate (to include the amount of damage it does).

Add mob types that we can learn to (anatomy) assassinate instead of only humanoid.

More DPS.

Decrease time to escape, hide, and sneak.



Last edited by Effoff; 05-10-12 at 01:21 AM.
Anywen
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #12

hettil said:
Extended and/or hastened counterattack. They'll give you some guff about it being OP already, but how when compared to headshot/vinelash ? Ranger's don't even need to pop a merc to rake in insane AA's
Barring that some sort of increase in the frequency of regular ripostes would be nice
More ranks of Knave's return strike (see above about counterattack)
more ranks of hastened escape
Please, please, please! I mean please add these!

I can understand why they would think it's overpowered... but really riposte disc is a really usefull tool that could use some boost...

More hastened escape rank.. seriously escape should be somewhere in the 1min refresh time now.



Last edited by Anywen; 05-10-12 at 03:50 AM.
Padgin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #13

SincroFashad said:
Illusion Shadowman!

-Sinc
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How many times does this need to be mentioned, and from you Sinc?lthough I might be tempted to start playing again if........


manateeX
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #14

Also, maybe an aa that allows us to get assassination attempts from throwing weapons from the forward arc.


amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #15

Group Invis2 aura. Wouldn't interfere with our combat aura clickies, make it a short enough range to keep the number of dirty tricks we could do with it down, and if you like even have it snare non-rogues down to the speed of a low level sneak.

Otherwise: Assassinate on throwing weapons needs an increase in proc rate, and front arc. I'd even settle for a arc restriction removal on backstab and deadly strikes. And moar dps, always moar dps.

Oddball: a lifetap proc similar to SK epic 2? Nothing that hard hitting, or with the whole group effect like the SK one. Just something that procs every/nearly every swing like theirs. Make it reduce dps output if you have to, to make it a soloing booster instead of a general dps boost. Say, 10% reduced damage for 1 minute, 15% of damage returned in lifetaps. Percentages are negotiable, I don't have a clue if those numbers would be too much healing, or too little. Consider it the antithesis of Razor's Edge.


Tivia
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #16

brogett said:
Shadow stance: Activated AA that builds up over time to boost our damage by, say, 25%. However it requires attacking from the shadows, aka being undetected. Any time we get hit the bonus resets to 0 and we start the build up again. Rationale - rewarding agro management. Problem - AoEs, ramp, etc, so it's situational. (That may make it more palatable to the devs though.)
Something like this, the removal of useless achievements and the fixing of shroud aa grinding and I might be tempted to come back. However other than my two personal gripes, Brogetts' Idea there is really good. That should be something everyone clamors for. Anything that rewards smart play is a good improvement.




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Jazya
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #17

The most popular ones from the last round of suggestions were:

1. Increase Critical damage on Backstabs
2. Increase Critical chance on Backstabs
3. Increase Massive Strike chance

I'd expect this time around, asking for a higher chance/HHE effect on Etherium Blades might be popular.

Equivalent TA/Flurry chance to Monk/Bers would be nice too, especially post-Aria nerf.

More Virulent Venom too please. Poisons are seriously losing the edge they once gave us.

Some sort of Rogue-only spell damage AA for critical procs would be awesome too. Give us some more punch from poisons and Bard procs



Last edited by Jazya; 05-18-12 at 12:53 PM.
amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #18

Jazya said:
The most popular ones from the last round of suggestions were:

1. Increase Critical damage on Backstabs
2. Increase Critical chance on Backstabs
3. Increase Massive Strike chance

I'd expect this time around, asking for a higher chance/HHE effect on Etherium Blades might be popular.

Equivalent TA/Flurry chance to Monk/Bers would be nice too, especially post-Aria nerf.

More Virulent Venom too please. Poisons are seriously losing the edge they once gave us.

Some sort of Rogue-only spell damage AA for critical procs would be awesome too. Give us some more punch from poisons and Bard procs
The top end delay on quality daggers with Etherium Blades is so low, I'd suspect that requesting it to be tuned higher is probably flat out. If I get lucky (or plan right, like that happens), and have the HHE proc on when I hit fury/spire/anything-else, the damage boost from having my weapon delay be about 6.6 (20dly at 208% haste [as listed in character screen, 100% worn+spell, 8% overhaste] minus 20*0.15 HHE). AKA, Etherium Blades stacks with everything, the one blasted thing the devs keep telling us we have too much of already.

As for having it be available more, with a higher proc rate. . . maybe we could get that through. I've noticed, in tests against guild hall dummies, that the EB procs seem to be timed off of delay+haste instead of delay+haste+hhe, which leads to very very long streaks of procs once it has cast the first buff. Increasing the proc rate would make a lot of sense (with what devs have previously said) if they increased the base delay on daggers, but that would further increase the proc rate if it isn't factoring in hhe.

Anyways, those are my rambling thoughts on that one skill. I'll try to be more coherent before I post any more ideas.


Tymaxx
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #19

Perhaps I misunderstood what was being said amongst the forum crowds, but wasn’t there a general consensus that rogue DPS while not the best in all cases was very competitive and in some cases exceeded most (not all) others, particularly amongst the raid rogue? (of which I am not one…pardon if this is inaccurate)

IF that is the case do you think it likely then that DPS will be at the top of the agenda for dev’s when considering upcoming tweaks to our class?

Or would they look at secondary skills and abilities? If they are leaning in that direction perhaps we should take the initiative and come up with some tricks we can use that we want, as opposed to getting “appraisal”….just a thought.


Stalk
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #20

Tymaxx said:
Perhaps I misunderstood what was being said amongst the forum crowds, but wasn’t there a general consensus that rogue DPS while not the best in all cases was very competitive and in some cases exceeded most (not all) others, particularly amongst the raid rogue? (of which I am not one…pardon if this is inaccurate)

IF that is the case do you think it likely then that DPS will be at the top of the agenda for dev’s when considering upcoming tweaks to our class?

Or would they look at secondary skills and abilities? If they are leaning in that direction perhaps we should take the initiative and come up with some tricks we can use that we want, as opposed to getting “appraisal”….just a thought.
No. Suggesting secondary stuff only makes them focus on that as a means of "balancing" sub-par DPS from us.

The only suggestions they should get is DPS.


hettil
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #21

Stalk said:
No. Suggesting secondary stuff only makes them focus on that as a means of "balancing" sub-par DPS from us.

The only suggestions they should get is DPS.
Sad, but true


manateeX
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #22

As a side note, it really rankles me just how easy rangers can rake in AA's soloing without a merc.


Zent
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #23

Confinement Trap:
Ideally it would be like the delusion line. The mob gets hit with the debuff that causes it to "lock" on to it's current target. In addition to the mob not being pushed half way up an odd terrain feature, while in this state, it can be more vulnerable to BS damage...The numbers can be scaled as required. This can be a poison based attack with a reasonably strong resist penalty. This is intended to enhance burn raid dps, so it can have like a 10 min timer, and it should last at least 30 secs. Unlike lurch, this will have no ability to serve as CC. If the pc with confinement effect on moves to a location the mob cant fit etc..the effect will break. Because of this, the devs should have no concerns about this unbalancing encounters, and therefore this should be landing reliably on most raid bosses.


brogett
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #24

Rogues in *perfect* scenarios are capable of some stellar dps for a short time, with the usual plumet afterwards. This perfect situation though requires a good mob pin, a shaman, bard, beastlord and ideally berserker aura too, plus all of those group members to be working in unison (if only!). Berserkers are in much the same boat, but their pin requirements for top dps is even more severe as one of their top abilities roots them. Put simply the environment is well over 50% of our dps output.

I'm sure we can ask for the usual dps upgrades (and I want them!), but I think ideas for how to improve our dps when not in the perfect setup would also be welcomed. It's already happening too.

Take Beastlord Kolos' Fury. It's *godly* - 62% faster swing speed if you have no current HH mod up. The Etherium Blades proc though is a substantial HH too - it's ignored when we have KF up of course, but when we don't we're closer to our peak dps than we were before and so a little bit less dependent on others to reach our peak.

What else therefore could come under that category? Shaman epic springs to mind (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...73&source=Live). Something similar but lower power as an activated AA. If we have a shaman it won't stack so we're not more powerful - instead we'll use it after their epic fades so it prolongs our dps reducing that all-too-well-known dps cliff. If we don't have a shaman then it's of significant benefit and boosts our peak dps.

Further more these skills already exist in game. It requires no "code support" to add them. Almost certainly the devs will preferentially add AAs that they can do without needing help from others to make them work. (By all means come up with ideas needing code too of course.)


amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #25

Stalk said:
No. Suggesting secondary stuff only makes them focus on that as a means of "balancing" sub-par DPS from us.

The only suggestions they should get is DPS.
I can't agree with that. We are going to get some non-DPS abilities; they won't give us all the DPS boost that we often feel is needed. I would rather have some coherent suggestions they can use for ADPS or utility that we, the safehouse, feel matches rogue style; instead of getting what ever the devs feel matches the remains of 'the vision'.


amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #26

brogett said:
Rogues in *perfect* scenarios are capable of some stellar dps for a short time, with the usual plumet afterwards. This perfect situation though requires a good mob pin, a shaman, bard, beastlord and ideally berserker aura too, plus all of those group members to be working in unison (if only!). Berserkers are in much the same boat, but their pin requirements for top dps is even more severe as one of their top abilities roots them. Put simply the environment is well over 50% of our dps output.
Doing as you suggested, getting us several abilities that are similar to other classes spells, seems like a good way to reduce the raid dps we produce. Giving us a shaman epic-like ability would only increase raid dps for it's duration, as if we were grouped with another shaman.

I'm not a top end raider, I don't know if the devs feel we are balanced well at that tier. If they do, then your suggestion makes more sense, since it will increase our normal group dps by a good amount at times, and do little to our top end maximum. It also seems like a good suggestion if they are looking for ways to allow us to stay at our current max for longer periods, without raising the instantaneous dps any. However, I suspect that those already raiding at the high end game might have some complaints about an expansion containing mostly abilities like that, since it would give them little boost.


hettil
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #27

I mostly agree on the no skills other classes have thing ... EXCEPT ... and I've been saying this one for years ... TRACK. I think we should have it. I could even provide reasons that it would fit for roleplay and lore. Makes far more sense for a rogue to have track than a damn bard.


brogett
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #28

amaquin said:
Doing as you suggested, getting us several abilities that are similar to other classes spells, seems like a good way to reduce the raid dps we produce. Giving us a shaman epic-like ability would only increase raid dps for it's duration, as if we were grouped with another shaman.

I'm not a top end raider, I don't know if the devs feel we are balanced well at that tier. If they do, then your suggestion makes more sense, since it will increase our normal group dps by a good amount at times, and do little to our top end maximum. It also seems like a good suggestion if they are looking for ways to allow us to stay at our current max for longer periods, without raising the instantaneous dps any. However, I suspect that those already raiding at the high end game might have some complaints about an expansion containing mostly abilities like that, since it would give them little boost.
I think it's something to mix in. I wouldn't be happy if all abilities were like that, but there's a rich seam of abilities to mine here without really treading on other peoples toes too much (we'd still love to have that adps from other players as no ability should closely match the original class one). I suspect it would be a long shot trying to get such things though.


Ponzi
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #29

It's not necessarily rogue specific, but I would pay quite a bit for a doorstop AA. Call it "Convenient Gnome" and make it stick a door, locked or otherwise, open for ten minutes.


Jazya
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #30

Ponzi said:
doorstop AA. Call it "Convenient Gnome" and make it stick a door, locked or otherwise, open for ten minutes.
Not often these days to see truly original, out of the box idea that would be useful. Props.


amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #31

Ponzi said:
It's not necessarily rogue specific, but I would pay quite a bit for a doorstop AA. Call it "Convenient Gnome" and make it stick a door, locked or otherwise, open for ten minutes.
Make it a trap with the ability to fail if a hostile NPC 'trips' over it, and I'll support this insane idea.

Hell, I'll support it without that. It's not normal, I am sure it has some legit uses, I'm certain I can find a way to cause havok with it, and it's just not something that already exists. Let's do this!


amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #32

brogett said:
I think it's something to mix in. I wouldn't be happy if all abilities were like that, but there's a rich seam of abilities to mine here without really treading on other peoples toes too much (we'd still love to have that adps from other players as no ability should closely match the original class one). I suspect it would be a long shot trying to get such things though.
I wouldn't expect, nor want, the abilities to be near the other classes options. For one, that would discourage us from grouping with those other classes; reducing someone else's usefulness is not what our wishlist should include (expect ranger/zerker/monks, blast them all).

But, as an example, the SK 2.0. Stacking it with fleet-footed or lithe would be way too effective, so I'd almost expect to see it on that timer; except that a lot of our soloing is done with counter-attack. Pain in the ass to balance, either way, but it would offer us a change and a choice to make in how to solo and how to gear to solo. If we group with that class, we could use both their epic click, and our dodge discs. Without them, we are forced to choose. Not a bad setup.

If a shaman/beast epic style ability blocked Rogue's Fury or Spires (those are what you guys still use for hard burn clicks, right?), it would again extend the duration we could turn endurance into damage, without interfering with the maximum dps we could hit. Block it either via timers, or by spell slots. Just make sure we know that it blocks, k?

Another class ability, less restricted and not an epic, would be something like a 10 minute duration, 10 minute refresh haste. I can't tell you the trouble I have finding an enchanter or shaman some nights, and have spent hours duoing with an SK with just Stanos' gloves and an overhaste ring for haste. Something with even 40% haste1 would be useful in those situations. Maybe other rogues feel it would be a waste of an ability, heck I'd feel cheated if it was the only dps boost we got but as a group buff/aura/self buff it would be an interesting low end adps.

Maybe all of these ideas are too odd, too tame, or nothing anyone else would waste AA on. I'm still just throwing ideas out to see what sticks.


Soulstealer
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #33

How about a form of tracking. Call it "Man Hunter" and limit it to humanoid targets.


Jazya
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #34

Soulstealer said:
How about a form of tracking. Call it "Man Hunter" and limit it to humanoid targets.
Bonus to this is if they can flag the tracking window by body type, other classes will finally get the ability to hide mercs and pets from tracking window. it'd be super awesome if there was an indicator for non-agro NPC's too.


amaquin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #35

Jazya said:
Bonus to this is if they can flag the tracking window by body type, other classes will finally get the ability to hide mercs and pets from tracking window. it'd be super awesome if there was an indicator for non-agro NPC's too.
If we ask them to add an indicator to separate what's just a teal con and what's a teal con and assassinate-able, they might take it that we're just asking for a version of the program that shall not be named.

Side note of odd assassinates: the book dervishes in one of the Erudin Burning missions. A slim few were assassinatable, I couldn't tell if the others were humanoid and just a level too high, or correctly non-human. I mean, I get that a book has a spine, but this was a pun too far.


manateeX
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #36

One that came to mind was some sort of PBAE backstab.


Ponzi
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #37

My guess is that they regret putting in headshot and assassinate, and won't try to make them any easier to use than they already are. Assassinate isn't as bad as headshot is, but it seems unfair when a single character can instantly kill half the mobs in a zone like feerrott, depriving all the appropriately leveled characters in the zone of mobs to kill.


Jazya
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #38

Ponzi said:
My guess is that they regret putting in headshot and assassinate
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...86223&#2803116

I've always felt that assassinate working on LB's is justified because it's probably the only reason that Rogues are not dead-last on the solo charts.

If they want to give us something else, great, I'm sick of having to fight Rangers for mobs. (NEVER other Rogues, always Rangers)



Last edited by Jazya; 06-01-12 at 02:43 PM.
manateeX
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #39

Jazya said:
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...186223�

I've always felt that assassinate working on LB's is justified because it's probably the only reason that Rogues are not dead-last on the solo charts.

If they want to give us something else, great, I'm sick of having to fight Rangers for mobs. (NEVER other Rogues, always Rangers)

They can either make us better able to molo dark blue/white cons or more efficient at the light blues. Pick one, I'm good with either......


Anywen
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #40

amaquin said:
If we ask them to add an indicator to separate what's just a teal con and what's a teal con and assassinate-able, they might take it that we're just asking for a version of the program that shall not be named.

Side note of odd assassinates: the book dervishes in one of the Erudin Burning missions. A slim few were assassinatable, I couldn't tell if the others were humanoid and just a level too high, or correctly non-human. I mean, I get that a book has a spine, but this was a pun too far.
After all, the books and walking armors types in the Library are assassinable so there's no reason the books in EB aren't, so yeah probably a level problem... but i agree it doesn't really makes sense.

That comment Elidroth made on the eq boards really shows they do regret what's happenning with HS and assassinate... but yet they gave us more ranks with VoA and now it works in feerrot and the library, they probably figured it would happen anyway... Dunno if we'll get more ranks that's the question!

I do agree with tracking, always felt it was a very rogue-like ability. Some form of limited tracking would be nice indeed!


Ponzi
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #41

Maybe those books aren't really animate. Instead they're being held by an invisible humanoid monster.

I can sympathize with the headshot/assassinate situation. Expanding the levels of mobs that can give exp unexpectedly made trash removal tools into an exp powerhouse, and changing or removing them will cause a massive amount of anger.

I do agree that rogues need some sort of help with soloing though.


crillin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #42

How about a glyph that is better for rogue burns?



manateeX
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #43

What if we got aa's that gave ups dps boosts to killing humanoids in general the same way that pallys get dps boosts to killing undead. Something that would let us solo dark blue humanoids and maybe even the occasional named.


songsa
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #44

1 DPS AA
2 DPS AA
etc...

then CURE AA to cure that damn slow debuff hitting us in more and more raid events.



Songsa
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Bargai_Stromm
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #45

amaquin said:

...

Another class ability, less restricted and not an epic, would be something like a 10 minute duration, 10 minute refresh haste. I can't tell you the trouble I have finding an enchanter or shaman some nights, and have spent hours duoing with an SK with just Stanos' gloves and an overhaste ring for haste. Something with even 40% haste1 would be useful in those situations. Maybe other rogues feel it would be a waste of an ability, heck I'd feel cheated if it was the only dps boost we got but as a group buff/aura/self buff it would be an interesting low end adps.

...
I suspect that giving us an activated haste (Haste V2 is what you are looking for, I believe) would turn into a DPS upgrade that isn't a DPS upgrade at all. This would especially hold true if the Haste V2 granted was less than 50%. Distillate of Alacrity X and the Lizardscale Plated Girdle both give HasteV2 of 50%.

The only rogues that a 10 minute, 40% HasteV2 self-buff would be useful to would be rogues on the Progression Servers (assuming the AA was level 60 or lower). But ALL rogues would have SOE pointing at such an AA and saying, "We gave you a self haste AA, what more do you want?"



Last edited by Bargai_Stromm; 06-11-12 at 12:10 PM.
Ponzi
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #46

songsa said:
1 DPS AA
2 DPS AA
etc...

then CURE AA to cure that damn slow debuff hitting us in more and more raid events.
How about a slow resistance AA? One that either gives a higher chance to resist slows, or makes slows less effective in general against rogues. It would be a neat feature for the class that's a bit different from the usual +dps stuff.


CaudyrShadowfury
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #47

I realize it's probably too late for any of these to get into the game given how old this thread is, heh, but here they are anyway:

DPS AAs:
  • Give us an AA version of the clicky on http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=109354 and/or just an AA that increases the power of our poison procs and/or proc crits.
  • Scout's Mastery of <other weapons> to the same rank as piercing, as well as more ranks of piercing.
  • Extended AAs for Twisted Chance, Assassination and maybe even the riposte disc
  • Veteran's Wrath AA for backstab.
  • More ranks of Fundament of Combat + the spires...and/or a new spire that combines either spire 2/3 or all 3 spires into 1 spire. Hell, make 2 new spires. 6 new ranks of Fundament of Combat before you can unlock the first of the new ones. This one will combine spires 1 and 2. Then 6 more ranks of Fundament of Combat before you can unlock the other one, which will combine all three.

    The new ranks of Fundament of Combat should also increase hp by say...25 (do the same with end, too...i guess)...ac by say...5...and str/sta/agi/dex by 1 per rank. It could vary which stats are tweaked but at the very least I'd say it should boost the melee stats by 1 per rank and give some hp/end. Make these cost more than 1 point per rank this time...make them be say...5 per rank.

    The new spires should have 4 ranks to bring each of the other spires' abilities up to the level of the given spires. Could also add a new rank to give another boost to these, as well...though if they're all combined into 1 spire then I don't know that it's really necessary. There shouldn't be a problem of "slots" in the spell data, either...the effects are:

    1st spire
    9: Add Proc: First Spire of the Rake Effect rate mod 100
    1st spire proc
    1: Decrease Chance to Hit by 25% with All Skills
    2: Decrease STR by 40
    3: Decrease ATK by 25
    2nd spire
    1: Increase Damage Bonus by 56 with All Skills
    3rd spire
    9: Increase Critical Damage by 50% with All Skills
    12: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 50% with All Skills

    As you can see...the only change that would need to be made to combine these is to put the 1st spire's proc effect on one of the many other slots.

    If another rank were to be added to each of the spires, too...then they could be set to have the new 1st spire proc go with 30% 45/50 and 30/35 for their debuffs...the 2nd spire could just go to a 70 dmg bonus...and the 3rd spire could go with 60% for both mods, because the other ranks boosted it by 10% each rank.

    Each rank of these new spires could cost 10aa each, too.
  • Several more ranks of Enhanced Thief's Eyes that add new bonuses of sorts to the ability. Maybe add a damage thing akin to what Onslaught does, but make it work for all weapon types (Onslaught is piercing 1hb 1hs - make this include h2h 2hb 2hs). At the very least boost what is already on it, if nothing else. This will also give us something to give back to the group aside from the almost nearly completely useless accuracy boost that's on Thief's Eyes as it is.
  • New rank(s) of Sinister Strikes that increases the dmg bonus for both hands *shrugs*
  • More AAs of Etherium Blade that will increase the damage done with piercing weapons (passive), increases the chances of Blade Fury going off, and/or add damage bonuses like Onslaught's to your weapon. Don't increase the effect of Hundred Hands Effect as I believe that's already at the maximum as it is...though i guess it may be boostable a bit. Could also add flurry and/or triple attack chance mods to it, as well.
  • On the above subject, maybe an AA that adds another tick to the Blade Fury buff's (the proc from Etherium Blade) duration or something, if we can't get an increased proc rate.
  • As someone else may have mentioned, an AA line for the Skill Damage Mods that will increase their caps, too. It's probably not easy to max these out, but it couldn't hurt to increase the cap (I'm sitting at 145/125 backstab dmg mod for example, w/o all that much effort) to give a small edge on that front, too.
  • Several more ranks of Hastened Pinpoint please. :P
  • I would be for another cunning disguise AA, like shadowman or something else, if it also gave a dmg boost of some sort. Could do like a 15 or 20 dmg bonus for the illusion. Something not too overpowering and something that can be easily controlled. Illusions could be: Shadowman, this one (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=36857), this one (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=36514), kobold, skeleton model(s), gargoyle model(s), elemental model(s), orc model(s).
  • An alternative to the above would simply be an AA that adds the dmg bonus mentioned above to the cunning disguise AAs (all of them), so that you could still pick what ones you want. These AAs should be giving us faction modifiers (at least, for the playable races), too...could do that with this AA, heh.

    In the case of this method, we should get a bunch more of them (w/o detracting from the other AAs we'll get, dammit) that will give us the ability to be the other races that can be picked (Dark Elves, Drakkin, Dwarf, Froglok, Gnome, Halfling, High Elf, Iksar, Ogre, Vah Shir, Wood Elf). I know someone is gonna say "BUT OMG MY TINK MASK WILL BE USELESS!"...but who really gives a crap about that at this point...not like you won't be able to go about saying "hey, i have a tink mask" still, heh. I don't really give a crap about the masks and they just gather dust in my bank for the illusions I [b]DO- have.
  • Several more ranks of Extended Envenomed Blades...I'd go so far as to say add at least another 30 seconds to the duration with it this coming expansion (i.e. at least 5 ranks :P)
  • Not really sure if it's feasible, but an AA that let us get another potential proc off of each swing would be nice. For example, I have the dmg proc on the weapon and bite of the shissar on (nothing else)...there could be a chance for these to go off on every hit. Could limit it to only unlinking the dmg procs on weapons/augs from preventing other procs from buffs, innates, etc from going off. I'd be satisfied with that, heh.
  • An AA with multiple ranks that extends spire duration to last for the entirety of our disc usage at its max rank...since it's longer than 90s now with Razor's Edge and the Extended AAs.
  • An AA that reduces the stupid detrimental effects of the Razor's Edge line, if not getting rid of them altogether.

    They are:
    1: Increase Incoming Spell Damage by 25%
    2: Skill Damage Taken (15%)

    Could have each rank reduce the spell dmg by 2% and skill dmg taken by 1%...with 10 ranks...or to completely get rid of it 5% per rank for spell dmg and 3% per rank for skill damage. Why this was even put on and kept on the disc is beyond me...

Non-DPS AAs that may increase our utility and/or ability to pull out our max dps without actually increasing it:
  • Shadowstep to behind the mob facing it's back.
  • An AA that increases the 'rear arc' so we have more room to do our full dps on a mob before the Chaotic Stab check comes into play.
  • Something akin to the push AAs that warriors etc get that won't push the mob out an insane amount but just enough for us to be able to actually GET into the rear arc.
  • An AA that makes it so you are more efficient in your successful poison extractions and/or actual poison crafting supplies. In the case of the extractions, have first rank 'double' the yielded extracts...up to like...3 ranks that will quadruple them (in other words, the single combine will yield 4, and the double combine will yield 8).
  • Hastened Sneak AA that will bring the sneak reuse to the same amount of time as the Hide reuse is with maxed Hastened Stealth.
  • Another rank of Hastened Stealth that makes it so you can ALWAYS hide while moving (or a fix to it if it's intended to be this way and isn't :P).
  • Hastened Stealthy Getaway AAs to bring it down to a ~10 minute reuse or so.
  • Hastened Envenomed Blades AA to reduce reuse
  • More ranks of Extended Ingenuity so our clickies last longer~
  • More ranks of Purge Poison (change the name to like...Purge Self or something, too)...each rank adds another cure type to the AA, so that it cures poison at rank 1, diseases at rank 2, curses at rank 3, corruption at rank 4 and then some form of the RC line cures at rank 5.
  • More ranks of Hastened Purification - There's no reason purge poison shouldn't be a really fast reuse at this point at the very least. Not like it's overpowering anything.
  • AAs that improve the effect of a successful evade...if I'm not mistaken it drops you 1 'rung' down on the ladder -1 hate so you can really easily get agro back. Make these new ranks increase that -1 hate up to like... -100 to -500 or so, that way a successful evade actually DROPS you down the rung and makes you less likely to get back up there. If it's just a hate reduction like Quellious Trauma poisons...then the AA should just increase the amount of that hate reduction.
  • AAs that improve the likelihood of a successful evade check.
  • More run speed so we're even with monks and/or bard just because~ :P
  • More ranks of tumble that will increase the effectiveness of your chance to avoid incoming damage, while reducing the combat penalty...or at the very least more ranks that reduce the combat penalty.
  • More ranks of Dirty Fighting that will increase the effectiveness of the debuff and maybe at the last rank remove the blindness effect, so you don't have to worry about the mob bolting all over the place because it's blind and has to move 1cm to get back in fighting range of the mob. The more ranks could also boost the damage taken by the mob if they're willing to do that, just because...though it's not really necessary.
  • Hastened Dirty Fighting and/or unlinking its usage from the Envenomed Blades line. The timers don't conflict but they won't stack with each other and I believe one will overwrite the other.
  • 3-5 more ranks of Hastened Ligament Slice would be nice, too...so it could be used more often. Could add more ranks, too - if after the 3rd (or 4th, imo :P) new rank you cut down the time reduction to 5 seconds per rank after that. This should be a ~10-15s reuse, imo...it wouldn't be overpowering at all and it would be a helpful way to help combat the whole problem of the stupid thing wearing off after 1-2 ticks. -_-
  • Either more ranks of Ligament Slice or a new AA (like...Empowered Ligament Slice or something) that will increase the resist check and/or make it so the mob CAN'T break the damn snare early...since atm it rarely lasts for more than 1-2 ticks even though the duration is over a minute. If more AAs of Ligament Slice are put in, could maybe have it add a decreased chance to avoid melee attacks or something...as it would make sense 'lorewise' that if you cut the ligaments they won't be able to avoid the attacks of you and others as efficiently.
  • More fear resistance AAs, and/or a fearless AA, heh.


As I said, I'm sure it's too late to make any comments on it and have any of them get in for the expansion's release at the very least, and I'm sure at least some of the ideas would be considered "too powerful" by the stingy devs :P...but I figured it couldn't hurt. I also tried to avoid suggesting AAs that will give % boosts to our dps, since I'ms ure those would never get in...or at the very least have a far lower chance of doing so.


On the subject of what others suggested...
  • I like the idea of a slow resistance AA...if NPCs can slightly/partially/mostly resist slows and have been able to for years...why can't we now, too...especially if it's via expensive AAs?
  • I like the idea of more ranks of Knave's Return Strike to increase the chances of that triggering a riposted backstab. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say give us more Double Riposte ranks, as well...and maybe even add a Triple Riposte in. :P
  • I like the idea of a self-only version of shammy epic that is not as effective...and won't stick when shammy epic is on. Of course, this would have to be given to at the very least the other melee dps or else there's no chance in hell of it ever happening...but I don't really see that as a problem. :P Could extend this setup to add others for Beastlord's Kolos Fury (of course, a lesser version that this will be overwrote by the original OR not take if original is on). Could also do Auspice and maybe even the war cry from zerkers.
  • As someone else mentioned, an AA line for each of the following mod2's: Damage Shielding, Damage Shield Mitigation, Avoidance, Accuracy, Combat Effects.

    For Damage Shield and DS Mitigation, it could be a multi-rank AA that increases the cap by 1 point per rank...there's enough room for raid buffed people, for example, to get a boost of like 25ish at least for these.

    Increasing the Shielding, Dot Shielding and Spell Shielding effects would probably not happen, as it may be considered overpowering (though I would like to see it, anyway, heh). Stun Resist and Strikethrough could simply be tackled by giving us the AAs that other classes have that give them either close to max or max of one or the other stat.

    For Avoidance, Accuracy and Combat Effects...have each rank increase the cap by 2-5 per rank. Again, with raid gear there's enough room for a boost of at least 50 to these caps.

    Could make the AAs like 10-15AA per rank and it'd still be worth it, imo. This would also give raid gear that 'edge' over group gear that it's lost with group gear pretty easily maxing out most, if not all, mod2's these days.
  • I like the idea of a new rank of Escape that will strip the mob of any dots that you put on it, too...as well as the idea of escape being dropped to 1 minute reuse. It's not really necessary but it WOULD be nice...and not really overpowering at all imo either, heh.

What I don't like from the suggestions (or at least need tweaks to be something I do like/think would be satisfactory/will work)...
  • I DON'T like the idea of a PBAE backstab, because that could just cause all sorts of issues...especially in areas where you're mezzing mobs, etc. Now, if it were something like Destructive Fury for monks that was an activated AA that made all hits turn into an AE attack, then I would be for it...but just a straight up PBAE backstab would be awful. Actually...yes...give us a version of Destructive Fury plz! :P
  • I don't really care for the idea of a humanoid tracking AA, though I'm not sure it would serve much of a purpose in the long run. I mean, it's a nice idea...but personally I don't really see the point of it...unless it gave us a lvl reading along with a con reading, too. Even then, though...meh.


...man, this has turned into a long post, heh...thank god for formatting to make it a bit easier to read each point at least, lol. >_<


crillin
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #48

It would have been easier to list the things you don't want


Feochadan
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #49

The way things evolve, it is now time to remove the rear arc dependence for backstabs. As much as I hate that too, and would prefer to keep it, here are the facts :
currently, we are not the only position dependent melee dmg class. Berserkers are too, they fight blind, rooted, and then they want mobs cornered. Of course, cornering has been made bad for us in almost every place for countless expansions.
With all the push (and pets DO push), mobs are often up the slanted wall, and 95% of the time facing the raid. Then, berserkers are happy : the mob does not move, and they can hit while blind and rooted.
And our arguments to have the back fall short compared to the gazillion dps the zerkers bring : our backstab, now mudded down to about 30% of our dps, is no longer required, so we lose much of it in fights.


Soulstealer
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Re: AA ideas for 2012 expansion
Reply With Quote   #50

remove the "Backstab damage" stat and just go back to letting us use the real base damage of a weapon. This will put backstab back in line where it needs to be, give us the dps boost we need to be back where we should be, and not break things for anyone else.


Other than that, I would love a AA that makes us resist being stunned.




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